Guess Who ?

BTW it might remind you that this diatribe all started when one of your members misrepresented me on this forum because someone else re-scheduled and enduro, and did it for good reasons. I have the right to defend myself and my advocacy and always will because I am on the right side of this ORV issue, it is not the other way around.
 

Jon Holcombe

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Al, here is a specific example. The road I've highlighted in green would have been illegal to drive under MAP, but is legal to drive now. How is having the MAP going to stop anyone from driving down this road? Especially if they want to cause damage or drive into the bogs?

I am still befuddled by the solution you are proposing. Keeping people like Guy, Ben, Bob, Scott, Al, Joe and the other prominent posters from driving this road is not preserving the pine barrens or saving the bogs, or wetlands.

Wouldn't having more responsible drivers in all areas keep the idiots in check?

If you want to keep the Jeep Jamboree out (and I do too), shouldn't the superintendent of the forest be the one to do it?

Screen-Shot-2019-03-28-at-9.51.52-AM.jpg
 
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Ben Ruset

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BTW it might remind you that this diatribe all started when one of your members misrepresented me on this forum because someone else re-scheduled and enduro, and did it for good reasons. I have the right to defend myself and my advocacy and always will because I am on the right side of this ORV issue, it is not the other way around.
Maybe if you acted a little less haughty you wouldn't be in a position to have to defend yourself so much.

It seems lost on you that you and I (and many other people here) are on the same page. I just disagree with the methods you and the PPA are using to advance this agenda.

Chances are that if you, Jason, Rob, and the PPA acted with a little more grace and humility the MAP would be in effect now. It's something that I have said to Jason many, many times. All you needed to do was be more inclusive, a little more open to hearing other people's ideas, and a little more open to compromise. But when all you do is look down at other people it's hard to find common ground.

The forest has suffered because of people like you.
 

Ben Ruset

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Wrong, I know for a fact PPA had no input into the MAP but several ORV groups were.
Plenty of emails in the OPRA request that I made for Rob's email say otherwise.

One of my favorites was Jacklyn's email to Rob saying that people from this website would be mad at first but we'd all forget about it in time.
 
Al, here is a specific example. The road I've highlighted in green would have been illegal to drive under MAP, but is legal to drive now. How is having the MAP going to stop anyone from driving down this road? Especially if they want to cause damage or drive into the bogs?
It would be barricaded and heavily signed and the Park Police can more easily monitor. You have to realize that the Park Police only issue summons for trespassing, they do not know the environmental laws.
 
I am still befuddled by the solution you are proposing. Keeping people like Guy, Ben, Bob, Scott, Al, Joe and the other prominent posters from driving this road is not preserving the pine barrens or saving the bogs, or wetlands.
No one was purposing to keep anyone out of any area, You may have to walk, ride a horse or ride a bike more, that isn't a bad thing. Every state has restricted areas but NJ does not and everyone wants to run all over hell. It can't be done. The Batsto Wilderness area is no longer marked because all the signs have been destroyed, still doesn't mean it should be driven on,
 

Ben Ruset

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Answer this. Don't avoid it. Was there a provision for hunters and should not have caused them to vote against the MAP.
Wasn't it something like people needing to get a special permit from Rob? Considering that he's canceling events that he doesn't like who's to say that he'll just capriciously deny permit applications? It's a reasonable fear considering how much secrecy surrounded this thing.

Even if there was a provision, why are you assuming that it's acceptable, workable, or reasonable for the sportsmen? Just another thing that Rob and the PPA want to ram down other people's throats without input.
 
Plenty of emails in the OPRA request that I made for Rob's email say otherwise.

One of my favorites was Jacklyn's email to Rob saying that people from this website would be mad at first but we'd all forget about it in time.
The MAP was done then and in Trenton by that time. And Jaclyn was right, some please will be upset but it would be better than losing all privileges. A common practice when not everyone can be satisfied. In this case, and in all cases in the Parks and Forest, they have the right to monitor the parks as they see fit to preserve the space. There is nothing devious about that, it is the law.
 
If you want to keep the Jeep Jamboree out (and I do too), shouldn't the superintendent of the forest be the one to do it?
The superintendent does not have that authority, that is one of the points we are fighting for. You need to get up with Parks and Forest and various supers of parks to learn what they can and can't do. You'd be surprised. Learn before you burn.
 

Ben Ruset

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No one was purposing to keep anyone out of any area, You may have to walk, ride a horse or ride a bike more, that isn't a bad thing. Every state has restricted areas but NJ does not and everyone wants to run all over hell. It can't be done. The Batsto Wilderness area is no longer marked because all the signs have been destroyed, still doesn't mean it should be driven on,
And what about people who have limited mobility? Or those who would end up carrying 50+ pounds of camera equipment? What about places that horses can't go? And how are you going to ride a bike in deep sugar sand?

Who are you to decide what is a "bad thing" or not?

Your hyperbole is ridiculous. NJ has plenty of "no motor vehicle" areas. There are plenty of places closed off. Once the MAP failed and enforcement was ramped up there was a marked improvement in the condition of the forest in many places. Is it a shame about the signs? Yes. I don't agree with it. Should replacing them be considered a cost of doing business for the DEP? Absolutely.
 

RednekF350

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BTW it might remind you that this diatribe all started when one of your members misrepresented me on this forum because someone else re-scheduled and enduro, and did it for good reasons. .
If you are referring to me, that is not accurate.
I started the thread with information that is currently posted on the home page of the South Jersey Enduro Riders website. That Information indicates that it was the superintendent of Wharton State Forest’s decision.
 
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Wouldn't having more responsible drivers in all areas keep the idiots in check?
It is saving wetlands and that whole area is a wetland and a big one at that. No one is going to repair the road to make it useable for driving, it would take too much work with not much results that would be positive for the wetlands. More people in the woods, the same woods, yes will help curtail the problems. That is why a MAP is needed. The MAP is needed fast too because things are going downhill in the Pinelands very rapidly at this point.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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The superintendent does not have that authority, that is one of the points we are fighting for. You need to get up with Parks and Forest and various supers of parks to learn what they can and can't do. You'd be surprised. Learn before you burn.
I seem to recall at one of the town meetings during the last debacle, one of the statements was that the superintendent has every right to close roads and deny permits, guess that was a lie.
 

popeofthepines

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It would be barricaded and heavily signed and the Park Police can more easily monitor. You have to realize that the Park Police only issue summons for trespassing, they do not know the environmental laws.

The Park Police also issue tickets for speeding, driving in unauthorized areas, which is more than a trespassing ticket, not using seatbelts, not having proper permits for what you are doing, open container, etc. They have investigated several dump sites and made arrests and convictions. They are as much LEO as a Trooper .Most canoe liveries and campgrounds inform the public of proper ways to act such as not brining alcohol to avoid such tickets. Not sure if Pinelands Adventures does that?

And I would think minimizing the Park Police's enforcement knowledge and capability is insulting to them. FYI