How do we stop the damage?
- Thread starter Jason Howell
- Start date
Tony, do you think that Jason Howard is related to Moe, Curly and Shemp Howard? They told lots of stories, very funny ones.
Is their website out of date or is this rebuttal have incorrect information?
NJOA Accomplishments | New Jersey Outdoor Alliance – Preservation ...
njoutdooralliance.org › njoa-pac › njoa-a...
Hired a full time lobbyist from the largest lobbyistfirm in Trenton to represent the sportsmen's interest in Trenton.
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Well I wish everyone would just relax and stick to the issues instead of getting personal. But I'm not willing to move this thread as it currently stands. Of course, that could change if things continue going downhill…. 
Well I wish everyone would just relax and stick to the issues instead of getting personal. But I'm not willing to move this thread as it currently stands. Of course, that could change if things continue going downhill….
Thank you for saying so. In my experience, this forum has historically been a community of people who may not agree with everything, but are at least respectful to one another. It would be nice if this would continue.
I'll go with the former. The NJOA did not employ lobbyists for the MAP issues.
Boyd, I apologize. There are two posters in particular that come out of the woodwork whenever MAP and offroad is discussed, and they offer nothing else other than attacks on Jason. I attempted to poke fun at his garbling of Jason's last name, and it fell flat. This forum, and the advice and knowledge of the members here, is extraordinary. In the future, I will resist my knee jerk reaction to defend the underdog. My mantra will be "shut up and point your camera".Well I wish everyone would just relax and stick to the issues instead of getting personal. But I'm not willing to move this thread as it currently stands. Of course, that could change if things continue going downhill….
Hi Jon,
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who notices it. Now I don't agree with everything that Jason says and he's certainly drawn the ire of some folks and perhaps for good reason, but this forum is something special and I don't want to see good people start leaving in disgust because of a cultural shift toward meaningless personal attacks.
This forum is stacked with knowledgeable people with many years of boots-on-the-ground experience, we'd all be fortunate if it would stay that way.
Chilehead
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who notices it. Now I don't agree with everything that Jason says and he's certainly drawn the ire of some folks and perhaps for good reason, but this forum is something special and I don't want to see good people start leaving in disgust because of a cultural shift toward meaningless personal attacks.
This forum is stacked with knowledgeable people with many years of boots-on-the-ground experience, we'd all be fortunate if it would stay that way.
Chilehead
No need to apologize Jon, I actually chuckled when I saw your post (remembering my mis-spent childhood watching the three stooges). 
So the thousands of $$$ you have made from working on the PPA's website has no influence here?
Hopefully one day common sense will prevail and the 1997 USGS maps will become the official roadmaps for Wharton and beyond. Just add some additional details demarcating already established state natural areas, environmentally sensitive areas, and already existing no motorized areas like lower forge camp. Stay on the roads. Don't drive into bogs, swamps, vernal ponds, wetlands, etc. Pretty simple. NJParks and Forestry in conjunction with DEP and other State actors should and do have the ability to close roads (temporarily or permanently in rare cases as needed) for safety, maintenance or based on newly emerging data regarding the road condition. Looking forward to 2017, may cooler heads balance access with prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law those who despoil, damage and destroy our Pinelands.
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To me there is no need to have any map as a guide. Just stay on the roads, don't drive in wetlands where the road does not go, and life will be good. I don't want to be on some side road somewhere and the Park Police come up to me and say it is not on a topo. If the road is there I am going down it if I have something I want to get to. And if you watch the interview of Al Horner online he does the same thing and I am sure many other people who have spoken out in favor of the MAP do so also. Don't let them kid you. So lets just catch those who seriously break the law and leave the rest of us to enjoy the woods we own.
That sounds great in theory and I agree with your concern about ticketing but I am concerned that without drawing a line in the sand and saying "these are the official roads/trails" that the significant number of folks coming from near and far will start developing their own trails, which will become roads at some point but will not be State sanctioned and will not have had the planning/oversight to determine if T&E species as well as general Pines flora is being protected (not to mention aesthetics!). Time will tell if DEP and NJPC decide if the Pinelands need a map. Time will tell.
I agree. While a map is useful I don't agree it's necessary. You can use 1st beach as an example. It's not a road and any map wouldn't protect it any more then it already is. It's posted no motor vehicles. It is only a half a mile from the ranger station and just off a highly traveled dirt road. The only thing that would prevent further vehicular damage there would be a barrier like what was used at Atsion to close off the helicopter area. Using a map as an enforcement tool is more confusing then having no map in my opinion.
I agree with Pine Barrens Advocate. A lot of you were okay with the correct Topo Map before. Let's not change in midstream and make this so hard. You'll lose State support.
Like you, I may unknowingly wander onto a trail that is not on the map. If I get caught, my fault.
Like you, I may unknowingly wander onto a trail that is not on the map. If I get caught, my fault.