ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
The front page of yesterday's courier had another article about the MAP.
And has anyone seen a brown "rob" sign that was removed by the state? I know where I saw one cut a few weeks ago.
And has anyone seen a brown "rob" sign that was removed by the state? I know where I saw one cut a few weeks ago.
a pretty fair article. I thought your comments were perfect, Ben. Very much right to the point. I thought the video was misleading though. It did show some very real ecological damage at the hands (or tires) of ORV's, I can't argue that. But it also showed a lot of people mudding in pre-existing sand pits that causes little to no ecological damage, beyond what has already been done by the sand mining operations. Also, the footage of people just behaving recklessly (children in the jeep, drinking, etc.) really has no ecological consequence.
On a different note, Ryan was quoted discussing PH quality and invasive species. this is an important aspect of the pines in general since our low PH has been a huge contributing factor in eliminating, or reducing invasive plant species in the pines. I am uncertain how this pertains to ORV abuse and how that contributes to a higher PH. Soil compression perhaps? Allowing for more nutrients to accumulate at the surface? are ORV's digging down below the quartz based sand to more clay and silt based soil? How significant is that to really affect the ecology of the pinebarrens as a whole? I would be interested on thoughts concerning this.
The same thought crossed my mind. I'm concerned that raising these "improved roads" will cause areas to be flooded longer and provide more areas for plants to decay and silt to deposit in larger amounts increasing the PH. I'm not saying that it would but to me it seems more likely to raise the PH then vehicles. Not to mention the uncertainty of the PH of the fill used.
Ok I just made the mistake of going and checking out Facebook. I'm tired of hearing this line.
"The road is only closed to motor vehicles you are still able to go there"
Closed to motor vehicles means it is CLOSED!!. Last I checked roads are not needed to walk.
I've been stuck on the Turnpike when it was closed. I could do all the walking I wanted. It can be sugar coated all the PPA wants, its still closed.
"The road is only closed to motor vehicles you are still able to go there"
Closed to motor vehicles means it is CLOSED!!. Last I checked roads are not needed to walk.
I've been stuck on the Turnpike when it was closed. I could do all the walking I wanted. It can be sugar coated all the PPA wants, its still closed.
If the map has been scrapped all signs should come down immediately. The longer they stay up the more people will see them and thinks roads are closed and will no longer want to go there. Which I believe is a shame and the states plan. If it is a area of concern like Jemima mount take all the signs you just took down and go nail em to every tree around that hill. Then ticket anyone who climbs it in a vehichle.
The PPA has engaged in campaign of half-truths and outright lies to justify their support for the MAP. The "vernal pool" picture was the beginning. Then the pictures of the cut trees blocking roads -- Rob & friends denied it was them, but then recanted and said that it was them and then said that it was their prerogative.
We also had Jason Howell come on this site and heavily libel against me stating that I was advocating for forest fighters to be injured because they wouldn't be able to get out in case their vehicle got stuck in a fire. Recently Allen Crawford began attacking me on social media accusing me of being an off-roader with things like this:
and
in my response to pointing out "There may be an initial backlash, but then people will forget." - Jaclyn Rhoads, 2nd in charge of the PPA, speaking about the MAP.
Finally Jason showed up again at the NJPB Facebook page. Where Allen at least has the dignity to post using his real name, now he's using a fake name "The Pine Barrens" to attack me. Too much to quote so just read the exchange here.
So basically we have OPRA'd emails showing that the PPA has a far too cozy relationship with Rob Auermuller. We have a campaign of outright lies spread by them to promote the MAP to journalists, including that video that gives a half true sense of the damage going on in Wharton. We have Al Horner committing copyright infringement on his PineBarrensUnderSiege website, taking photos of people offroading outside the Pine Barrens to illustrate things, or using pictures from the Wharton 4x4 Cleanup to show trucks lined up ready to "assault" the pines.
If the MAP was so good, why do they have to lie so much to drum up support for it?
We also had Jason Howell come on this site and heavily libel against me stating that I was advocating for forest fighters to be injured because they wouldn't be able to get out in case their vehicle got stuck in a fire. Recently Allen Crawford began attacking me on social media accusing me of being an off-roader with things like this:
and
in my response to pointing out "There may be an initial backlash, but then people will forget." - Jaclyn Rhoads, 2nd in charge of the PPA, speaking about the MAP.
Finally Jason showed up again at the NJPB Facebook page. Where Allen at least has the dignity to post using his real name, now he's using a fake name "The Pine Barrens" to attack me. Too much to quote so just read the exchange here.
So basically we have OPRA'd emails showing that the PPA has a far too cozy relationship with Rob Auermuller. We have a campaign of outright lies spread by them to promote the MAP to journalists, including that video that gives a half true sense of the damage going on in Wharton. We have Al Horner committing copyright infringement on his PineBarrensUnderSiege website, taking photos of people offroading outside the Pine Barrens to illustrate things, or using pictures from the Wharton 4x4 Cleanup to show trucks lined up ready to "assault" the pines.
If the MAP was so good, why do they have to lie so much to drum up support for it?
Ben, as I'm sure you know, this site is an invaluable resource for anyone truly interested in the Pine Barrens. Although I've just recently become a member, I've been reading the posts for several years, and throughout that time I've always been impressed by the level of discussion regarding the history and nature of the Pine Barrens.
Do you want to know a great way for a group of people to demonstrate their ignorance and intolerance? Have them insult and lob false accusations at the owner of the single most valuable research and information source on the New Jersey Pine Barrens. The collective knowledge of the members here is astounding, and the suggestion that this site or it's staff has the desire or intent to bring harm to the environment would be laughable if it wasn't so disheartening.
There is, however, an organization that I am truly disappointed in after observing first-hand how some of their members and staff conduct themselves, and in case you're wondering it's not njpinebarrens.com (or OTNJ)! This has been an eye opening experience, and one I won't soon forget. It's sad actually.
Do you want to know a great way for a group of people to demonstrate their ignorance and intolerance? Have them insult and lob false accusations at the owner of the single most valuable research and information source on the New Jersey Pine Barrens. The collective knowledge of the members here is astounding, and the suggestion that this site or it's staff has the desire or intent to bring harm to the environment would be laughable if it wasn't so disheartening.
There is, however, an organization that I am truly disappointed in after observing first-hand how some of their members and staff conduct themselves, and in case you're wondering it's not njpinebarrens.com (or OTNJ)! This has been an eye opening experience, and one I won't soon forget. It's sad actually.
At least do me the service of quoting me if you are going to make a claim like that. That is no where close to anything I said. I thought we had a good resolution with the volunteer photo, I really appreciated you compromising there.
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Okay, I went back and looked: You're right, you didn't say that I was okay with FFS people being injured. You were implying that I was implicit in people getting death threats by posting that photo.
That discussion is in this thread below, which people should read in the entirety to get the context of this discussion.
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...attack-map-misinformation-from-the-dep.10711/
That discussion is in this thread below, which people should read in the entirety to get the context of this discussion.
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...attack-map-misinformation-from-the-dep.10711/
Sorry Ben, I wasn't looking to rehash this. But I did not say you were "implicit" or complicit, but that these volunteers including myself at the time had no idea of the larger plan on the horizon. And that by posting a picture of them clearly showing their faces may expose them to the same hatred that has been spewing on Facebook .
Jason since we're setting the record straight. Ben was correct with the location of one if those pictures.
"Where is the respect for the truth? Ben didn't even know where this photo was taken and he denied the fact that it was a push line. Smoke_Jumper said the truth about this." J. Howell
"Actually that "push line" looks like it was a farm road in the 1930s. Not created by the FFS at all." B. Ruset
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.707584586762025&lng=-74.77653573477936&z=17&type=nj1930&gpx=
That road was never a pushline, even though it did burn in '92. And is blocked with what was then a live tree. And you wonder why the "opposition folk" have trust issues.
"Where is the respect for the truth? Ben didn't even know where this photo was taken and he denied the fact that it was a push line. Smoke_Jumper said the truth about this." J. Howell
"Actually that "push line" looks like it was a farm road in the 1930s. Not created by the FFS at all." B. Ruset
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.707584586762025&lng=-74.77653573477936&z=17&type=nj1930&gpx=
That road was never a pushline, even though it did burn in '92. And is blocked with what was then a live tree. And you wonder why the "opposition folk" have trust issues.
And I know I've said it before, and I will say it again, but had the whole approach to the MAP have been handled differently, we probably wouldn't be having all of this hatred spewing on social media.
I certainly do believe that more groups/stakeholders should have been brought on board from the get go. It is a great lesson in grassroots politics. I get caught up in all this business some times but I have say I seriously respect the democratic effort you all are putting forth. I happen to disagree with your position, but your efforts in democracy I must applaud.
I continue to believe that even as we argue about this or that, we all do certainly care for this place. Sometimes I go overboard with, lets call it passion but I am sure others would have a different label!, but I was want to say I do seriously respect all of you and I hope my arguments here don't put me off in too bad of a light.
I registered here in 2009 to try and learn more about the place my family originates from and the place I intend to stay for the entirety of my life. I am an absolutely committed environmentalist so sometimes that colors my arguments a bit, but I again want to say you have a great forum here and I'm speaking with you all because I WISH we were working together on this. Even if we may disagree about this issue, I hope we can maintain at a minimum a professional relationship for the next issues that will confront us as a whole and not divide us as this issue has. I also thank you for debating me on these issues because the debates help clarify my own thoughts and opinions. I will try not to let my emotions get the best of me and I wish you all well.
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