No suggestions, just making some observations about the future. You don't need to convince me, you need convince people like @TabernacleNative and @mordecai .
ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
FWIW, I only know this is going on because some one dropped me a message and sent me here. I haven't actually logged in for years.
I don't get over to Carranza much anymore... too many people in the woods, many of them off their rocker.(Like the crazy dog lady that spends hours every week-all year round throwing deadfalls across the firecuts so 'nature can heal'.... through burning I guess? lol!)
Now that I know, I've spread the word to a few hundred of my closest friends. So you guys are getting the word out.
The misinformation being spread by PPA followers through their facebook page is nauseating. Brain washed bullet points from the newsletter word for word... with no real concept of the woods or what is actually going on.
This picture is the woods road to my old bowhunting spot from 20+ years ago between the paved bridges on Carranza. Closed (permanently) to allow repair and 'healing' from motorized damage. It hasn't changed in 20 years, probably hasn't changed much since Joseph Wharton's family sold it to NJ in 1954!
I don't get over to Carranza much anymore... too many people in the woods, many of them off their rocker.(Like the crazy dog lady that spends hours every week-all year round throwing deadfalls across the firecuts so 'nature can heal'.... through burning I guess? lol!)
Now that I know, I've spread the word to a few hundred of my closest friends. So you guys are getting the word out.
The misinformation being spread by PPA followers through their facebook page is nauseating. Brain washed bullet points from the newsletter word for word... with no real concept of the woods or what is actually going on.
This picture is the woods road to my old bowhunting spot from 20+ years ago between the paved bridges on Carranza. Closed (permanently) to allow repair and 'healing' from motorized damage. It hasn't changed in 20 years, probably hasn't changed much since Joseph Wharton's family sold it to NJ in 1954!
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I too am worried about the future. We are up against a plan that has been in the works for some time now and we have to react. I have forwarded this link to as many people as I could and encourage them to take the few minutes to write their congressmen. We don't have to change the minds of people who don't want vehicles in the woods we just need enough people to make more noise then them.
I have a proposition. If Guy can get there in his car it should stay open
IMO, what has all happened is all good, but, and my opinion, not much if anything will change. The roads are closed, the signs posted and the powers that be are moving on with this plan. Perhaps if the momentum had remained when this first started years ago things might be different. The next telling thing will be when those that caused the damage continue doing what they've done and ignore the new rules. If the state does not prosecute them and come down hard with publication of the prosecutions, then its just another waste of our tax money and an insult to us all. Without effective enforcement, those that do damage will move on to new locations and more roads will be closed. What concerns me most is how a non-profit with a known objective that has not been shown to be approved by the majority of taxpayers, can have so much influence on the peoples property. When you look at how they are run, with over 50% of their expenses going to salaries and just a small amount to conservation, you have to wonder what is going on. It's all in black and white in their financial statement.
Which battle, the one against the overzealous PPA types or the idiot 4 wheelers?
I think we're in a squeeze here.
I think we're in a squeeze here.
No, I 100% agree that whats done is done but further closings are what need to be prevented now
That if the momentum had been maintained we may not be here now
That the folks doing the damage should be prosecuted and publicly announced
That there is too much influence from the PPA and not enough transparency on this from the state
Personally, I would disagree. I think we have a couple things going for us. The first is social media. I was actually surprised myself how much reach our message has gotten. Once we get some more insight of how to best influence things, (I'm hoping to learn from my state Sen. office) we can mobilize these folks to help.
The second thing is that the plan/maps have not been released and all the roads are not yet closed. Had it been released properly, it would have been a lot harder for the DEP make any changes, while also saving face. Since it hasn't been released and many roads are not yet closed, I think we can still influence it.
I agree. After seeing the pictures from 1/4 mile I think we can all agree some closures are necessary. Cherry Hill Road comes to my mind. On my fathers topos it was only called a jeep trail and dead ended. On historic aerials you can see how much it's changed in the last 20 years. But the closures along the Skit and Mullica don't make sense. With transparency we would have some input on which roads are closed and how they are going to be patrolled. I think taking back a few sections at a time from these idiot 4 wheelers is a much better plan then shutting down a large portion to everyone.
Agree with whom? I don't consider it a 'battle', just a tug-o-war between groups, with one of them having 'oodles of resources. Happens all the time with P&F, F&W, but this time there was no open discussion before hand. But I don't see any reversals of road closure or signs being pulled, do you? Also have not heard of any prosecutions, either in the original problem area or these new ones. Or any sit-downs between the groups to discuss the path forward, as I think that path has already been marked. As always, time will tell the tale. Until then, let's just say I'm pessimistic of what has been done being reversed in the short term.
Hate to say it, but that certainly appears to be the case. How many members does the PPA have? Couldn't find it on their site. But I'll bet there are a lot more of them than there are people who want to drive on those roads.
I hate to say it but I don't disagree with you but we can't make it easy for them to just do what they want. If these closures don't work what's next. It's been closed to unregistered quads and dirt bikes for years but I see just as many now as before. Over the years they put more and more restrictions on motor vehicles in Wharton with no improvement. In 5 years when this doesn't work what's next. Completely closing it off except for camping and hunting season. Whether it's hunting stones, exploring old ruins, or watching waterfowl in the winter. We are the minority and we have the most to lose. I don't plan to give up just because there is more of them. I will be down at Batsto tomorrow. Even if my words are falling onto deaf ears I can at least say I did my best and maybe it will sway future decisions.
Respectfully disagree, I think the folks that aren't affiliated with any group (the public) have the numbers over the PPA, they (PPA) just have a louder voice and can organize and have Trenton's ear. We (other groups) on the other hand.....well you see what happened with that a few years back.
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Smoke, if your trying to get in to talk to Auermuller, heads up, I got an out of office email from him through Aug 4th when I sent my last email to him.
You didn't miss anything. Just have the day off and figured it would be a good day to go. I don't get many week days off
The East Coast Enduro Association has been very active. I suggest that all groups who want the the woods to stay open that we band together in our commin interests. There has been very little damage tho the forests by any group. Let's stop fighting with each other.
I routinely take pictures of 8 foot wide, 2 foot deep, firecuts that run for miles and miles in parallel on about a 300 foot pitch. The Areas are then burnt in controlled burns. I am not saying this is wrong. What I am saying is that, comparatively, a tire rut is "fart in a windstorm." as my sainted aunt so succinctly expressed.
Let us instead rebuke the picture taker and self appointed chicken little, and the pillsbury dough boy.
As the Belushi said in Animal House "who's with me?"
I routinely take pictures of 8 foot wide, 2 foot deep, firecuts that run for miles and miles in parallel on about a 300 foot pitch. The Areas are then burnt in controlled burns. I am not saying this is wrong. What I am saying is that, comparatively, a tire rut is "fart in a windstorm." as my sainted aunt so succinctly expressed.
Let us instead rebuke the picture taker and self appointed chicken little, and the pillsbury dough boy.
As the Belushi said in Animal House "who's with me?"