I'm not a soil guy, but it reminds me of the intermediate layers seen in quarries along the coast (Atlantic, Ocean, Cumberland Co.) before you get down to the pure white aquifer sand.
ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
The following was posted on the Tabernacle Facebook page this morning.
This is the reponse from my letter on closing of some of the roads in Wharton State Forrest from Senator Conners
This is the reponse from my letter on closing of some of the roads in Wharton State Forrest from Senator Conners
Ok, I'm not sure which angle you are coming from but I'm going to take a stab at this one. Most of the rumblings you got over the last few weeks were probably started from this forum. Talking to Rob was a good start as many did here (and still are). I would find it hard to believe that nobody here believes there is ORV problem in the Wharton. With that said I doubt anyone here feels these closures are even a start of the solution. I don't need BS map that shows me where the damage is. Take that interactive map and overlay the current closures are and they don't match up. If you buy into the hype that its a small price to pay to prevent the next area to be destroyed, I have a bridge to sell you. I doubt ANYONE will claim to know the future if you hold them to it. Closing these roads does 0% to helping the ORV problem. You mention calling to report violations but if I'm there less people out in the pines because we have to walk in now how can we do that. There are huge logistical problems on top of it. Is it possible to sent a ranger down West Mill Road for an hour each way just to patrol it. That's if it has been repaired, as far as I know it's still impassable but I haven't tried in 10 years or so. As far as closing "minor" roads that's also a crock. East Stokes Road has pretty much been there longer than this country has been founded and parts of it have been closed. I could sit here and pick this map apart but that's not the point. If we sit here and blindly follow a bad plan it's just as bad as following no plan at all. Logistically speaking there is no way that this plan, from what has been shown so far, can stop what's been going on over the years. This is not Camden. They aren't going to bring in State Troopers to curb the violence. What is step 2 in this fight if is actually is against illegal ORV. I notice MANY roads that are now closed that were created by either the FFS or for research. Blaming Illegal ORV for them is an outright lie. This doesn't even seem like a preservation vs conservation argument since it benefits neither side in the long run. The longer this topic stays alive in the publics eye the better chance it has of actually doing some good for the pines which is ultimately what we all want.
My wife just forwarded me this letter and I was going to post it here. What did you think of the letter?
https://www.facebook.com/Pinelands/...e=1&comment_id=10153452919325731¬if_t=like
Wait, isn't that high crossing? If so, that "vernal pool" was created by vehicles!
Wait, isn't that high crossing? If so, that "vernal pool" was created by vehicles!
The PPA wouldn't know a vernal pool if they fell into one.
I'm not going to bother going on the PineyPower Facebook page to write a rebuttal to this, but I'll do it here.
I think there's more than rumblings. It's more like an earthquake. This is a huge game changer that will change the character of the forest forever.
Wharton may have been awarded a grant, but was closing the roads part of a condition of the grant? Or was it just the creation of the map. I've filed an OPRA request to get a copy of that grant so we can actually get some facts.
With regards to the "main sugar sand" roads, that's like closing every street in New Jersey but leaving only the highways open.
Ok, so you admit that this is a flawed policy but you're okay with thousands and thousands of people being "punished" because of the actions of a few? How about the roads that don't go through delicate wetlands? Why are they closed?
That is absolutely the most asinine metaphor ever. When you go through the pain of TSA screening you're allowed to fly. Here it'd be like getting screened, the TSA agent not finding anything, and still not being allowed to fly. "Oh well, it's because of these terrorists that you can't fly at all now." Does that line make any sense?
It is absolutely insulting to say that people who are against this ban are against protecting the Pine Barrens. Considering that a large number of well respected environmentalists on this site are also against this ban that logic makes no sense. And how much damage and dumping would people come across if they're only limited to the main roads?
Agreed. But tackling this problem could have been done in a way that protected the rights of the public while going after the people who damage the Pine Barrens. Closing the roads is taking the easy way out, and at the end of the day, will not do anything to deter ORV damage but will deter thousands from even going into Wharton.
All of the people who are saying that the road closures are great are people who have benefited over the years from having those roads open. How many historic sites have we all been to that are no longer practical to reach? Or is the prevailing attitude now "Screw you, I got to go to these sites. Sorry you can't!" Because that is what it sounds like to me. How small and selfish.
I think there's more than rumblings. It's more like an earthquake. This is a huge game changer that will change the character of the forest forever.
Wharton may have been awarded a grant, but was closing the roads part of a condition of the grant? Or was it just the creation of the map. I've filed an OPRA request to get a copy of that grant so we can actually get some facts.
With regards to the "main sugar sand" roads, that's like closing every street in New Jersey but leaving only the highways open.
Ok, so you admit that this is a flawed policy but you're okay with thousands and thousands of people being "punished" because of the actions of a few? How about the roads that don't go through delicate wetlands? Why are they closed?
That is absolutely the most asinine metaphor ever. When you go through the pain of TSA screening you're allowed to fly. Here it'd be like getting screened, the TSA agent not finding anything, and still not being allowed to fly. "Oh well, it's because of these terrorists that you can't fly at all now." Does that line make any sense?
It is absolutely insulting to say that people who are against this ban are against protecting the Pine Barrens. Considering that a large number of well respected environmentalists on this site are also against this ban that logic makes no sense. And how much damage and dumping would people come across if they're only limited to the main roads?
Agreed. But tackling this problem could have been done in a way that protected the rights of the public while going after the people who damage the Pine Barrens. Closing the roads is taking the easy way out, and at the end of the day, will not do anything to deter ORV damage but will deter thousands from even going into Wharton.
All of the people who are saying that the road closures are great are people who have benefited over the years from having those roads open. How many historic sites have we all been to that are no longer practical to reach? Or is the prevailing attitude now "Screw you, I got to go to these sites. Sorry you can't!" Because that is what it sounds like to me. How small and selfish.
I'm on the side of I want our woods back!!!! This was posted on lar
This was posted on larry angel gadfly, I was just sharing, it was posted by piney power , I am as in as much dismay as the next person, and have done my part to voicing my concern about the abrupt closing of these roads.. I just wish there was away to stop all the finger pointing and shifting blame and could get an honest answer as to why this took place the way it did.
Superintendant Auermueller does not feel that you, or anybody else really, deserves an honest answer.
I know, but I still want one!
I am curious about the different reaction that Rob had in this discussion as compared to the response another received when asked about an open forum meeting. Does anyone else see the difference?
And where can we find out the information for this grant money that is referred to concerning this plan? I would like to see the stipulation in black and white concerning the need to create a trail system as a condition of receiving this grant.
We kind of already knew that the main roads are staying open based upon prior posting/conversations.
And we did discuss self policing at our meeting on Sunday for those people that are doing donuts in front of the church on Quaker and stupid stuff like that.
Al already did the work for me. And was not an existing vernal pool.
The closures will not help that location at all.
http://pinebarrensundersiege.com/2014/12/16/destruction-site-burnt-mill-road/
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I think it is the obvious place for the senator to start. He cannot directly fix the issue but he can push the right buttons. We have been wondering how to contact the NJDEP and he fixed that for us and it comes from his office. This may be the first time he heard of the closures just like the rest of us. We don't know what went on behind closed doors.
I am ready to send my letter. I used the form letter posted by SuperChooch as a guide but wrote it in a very personal way. I have to at least try.
once again, the form letter. Post 160.
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...ive-areas-of-wharton.10649/page-8#post-127763
