ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
From Greg's article: "Every year the Park Service and the state of New Jersey turn down comprehensive, reoccurring federal funds for motorized multi-use trails through the Recreational Trails Program (RTP), as part of an estimated gas-tax refund."
I would like more details. Rob denies having ever turned down money.
I would like more details. Rob denies having ever turned down money.
NJ SPS has gone years without touching the motorized portion of the RTP. The trails council itself has only allowed one sitting representative for motorized use, so there is always an extreme majority for non-motorized interests.
As far as Rob specifically, he denys or distorts everything that happens in private meetings. It's an unwritten rule to be considered when talking to him.
Motorized RTP discussions and proposals for trail and firecut maintenance (enduro MENU system) have always been squashed at the superintendent level.
Those grants would've been far smaller and simpler than this monstrosity and ACTUALLY been in the spirit and guidelines of the Recreational Trails Program.
Technically, it could be said "he never turned down the money because the DEP made sure the grant proposals never made it to Washingon."
As far as Rob specifically, he denys or distorts everything that happens in private meetings. It's an unwritten rule to be considered when talking to him.
Motorized RTP discussions and proposals for trail and firecut maintenance (enduro MENU system) have always been squashed at the superintendent level.
Those grants would've been far smaller and simpler than this monstrosity and ACTUALLY been in the spirit and guidelines of the Recreational Trails Program.
Technically, it could be said "he never turned down the money because the DEP made sure the grant proposals never made it to Washingon."
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I haven't been all that active for a number of years here just because I live much further from the Pines than I used to. I've been following this whole situation with dismay and honestly, if it weren't for this site, I would have never known about this at all-it's been years since I've been to Wharton, and the last time I really did any driving in the pines was in Bass River two summers ago. This is really a kick in the gut for me as I've just started looking at converting my 1991 Toyota single cab into a 4Runner so that I can cart around my two daughters off road once they get a little older to the different places I knew as a kid, just like the author of the article Guy posted. I really wonder how much of the pines will be accessible by then, and if even my oldest (she is four now) will get her first experience behind the wheel, as I did, on an old sand road.
One only needs to look to my backyard, (Stokes State Forest, High Point State Park, Worthington State Forest, and the Delaware Water Gap NRA) to see what the Division of Parks and Forestry has done over time. The first 500 acres of land for Stokes State Forest was donated by Governor Edward Stokes in 1907-the forest eventually expanded to 16,000 acres by the 1930s. Even when you lump in High Point State Park, Worthington, and the Gap, it still only amounts to about 3/4 of the size of Whartons 115,000 acres, but the fact remains that the roads, farms, homesteads, logging and mining operations of the area have a history that predates the Revolution, and reaches back to the earliest explorers of Colonial New Jersey. Logging, fire, and mining roads crisscrossed the area for hundreds of years prior the acquisition of Stokes, but over the last 100 years or so they have been closed off so that only a few remain-they just use boulders the size of cattle instead of logs. This is to say nothing of the aggressive road closures presided over by the National Park Service (they've even gated off paved roads) in the comparatively short amount of time they have managed the DWG NRA. Honestly though, what really burns me up is the support (albeit anecdotal) I've seen among some hunters for these closures. I participated in a thread about the closures on a popular NJ Hunting forum and was unpleasantly surprised at the view of more than a few hunters who think the closures are a good thing.
One only needs to look to my backyard, (Stokes State Forest, High Point State Park, Worthington State Forest, and the Delaware Water Gap NRA) to see what the Division of Parks and Forestry has done over time. The first 500 acres of land for Stokes State Forest was donated by Governor Edward Stokes in 1907-the forest eventually expanded to 16,000 acres by the 1930s. Even when you lump in High Point State Park, Worthington, and the Gap, it still only amounts to about 3/4 of the size of Whartons 115,000 acres, but the fact remains that the roads, farms, homesteads, logging and mining operations of the area have a history that predates the Revolution, and reaches back to the earliest explorers of Colonial New Jersey. Logging, fire, and mining roads crisscrossed the area for hundreds of years prior the acquisition of Stokes, but over the last 100 years or so they have been closed off so that only a few remain-they just use boulders the size of cattle instead of logs. This is to say nothing of the aggressive road closures presided over by the National Park Service (they've even gated off paved roads) in the comparatively short amount of time they have managed the DWG NRA. Honestly though, what really burns me up is the support (albeit anecdotal) I've seen among some hunters for these closures. I participated in a thread about the closures on a popular NJ Hunting forum and was unpleasantly surprised at the view of more than a few hunters who think the closures are a good thing.
As I have said, hunters are in some ways a non factor in my mind. Most of them come for a week and are gone. Last week at a meeting there was a hunter at our table who had just learned about it a few days before. He admitted that the hunters he knows were just awakening to the fact there were road closures. They were trying to get up to speed and were well behind. So for the most part it most likely does not effect many of them. And some of them I can tell you want the woods for themselves while out there. So why would they not like the MAP plan? It benefits them. And the new changes to allow them to drive on closed roads during hunting season is a slap in the face to everyone else who is there all year. Chalk that change to the NJOA and others who have met with Trenton.
My hope is that the larger hunting community may come around in time, but the organized hunting community has seen the writing on the wall and knows the dangers continuing down this path of closures. Talk of exceptions to the MAP plan is all unilateral Trenton damage control to dampen backlash. The hunters are still at town council meetings and the hunting clubs are still hosting meetings that include motorized access advocates, NJOA, and the Federation.
I hunt to provide my family with supplemental food. I rarely describe myself as a hunter, because I have many other interests which I am more passionate about.
As a hunter myself, the pine barrens is not an easy place to hunt and it takes a lot of research, exploration, and many months leg work to have a successful fall/winter season.
The only successful way forward is as a community of tax-paying citizens whose public access is being threatened.
I am not a "user-group" and my personal "interests" are secondary.
I hunt to provide my family with supplemental food. I rarely describe myself as a hunter, because I have many other interests which I am more passionate about.
As a hunter myself, the pine barrens is not an easy place to hunt and it takes a lot of research, exploration, and many months leg work to have a successful fall/winter season.
The only successful way forward is as a community of tax-paying citizens whose public access is being threatened.
I am not a "user-group" and my personal "interests" are secondary.
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I see nothing at all wrong with there getting that concession. They are concerned for their interests, just as folks here are concerned for theirs, as are kayakers, birders, photographers, etc. are concerned for theirs. The hunters are fortunate to have the NJOA speaking for them and they were effective. Why would you consider them a non factor, the hunting seasons are quite a bit longer than a week. This road closing issue effects everyone that uses the forest and all should be trying to work together.
I wasn't aware that this concession had already been carved out. I will say that as a hunter I see it as plain and simple pandering because I believe the roads should be open to access for all, all year round. However, a basic hunting license is only about $28 for the year and hunting season(s) is /are essentially open from September 1st to the middle of February, so there's one loophole. I know a guy who gets the hunting permit for the Newark Watershed lands (about 30K acres in Passaic County) just so he can "go scouting" during the season.
Yeah, wait - Rob has offered that concession but so far as I heard the NJOA told him to go stick it in his ear.
There has been no concession.
In my opinion, the NJOA, NJFSC , the gun clubs and every non-hunter who loves this woods have a long way to go before there will be any concessions made.
In my opinion, the NJOA, NJFSC , the gun clubs and every non-hunter who loves this woods have a long way to go before there will be any concessions made.
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Check out my thread under the Conservation forum on NJ Hunter Badfish. I was shocked at the response.
The general consensus was: "Good, 'bout F'ing time!
Sad.
I guess Guy is right about a lot of hunters only coming into the woods for a couple weeks out of the year. It's just not how I (or, I would venture to say, you) grew up-the summer between my senior year of high school and my first year of college I probably spent more time in Colliers Mills and the surrounding areas than I did the following fall. The thing that really surprised me is the fact that a lot of posts not only said "Good!" they were saying it in reference to illegal ATV use, as if this plan actually did something about it.
I'm more of a fisherman then a hunter. But I would venture to say that there are similar ways of thinking. Anything restricting the amount of traffic around my favorite spots I probably would be in favor of, as long as it didn't restrict me too much. I also think that many people, not just hunters, feel that if they're just driving down a closed road not doing any harm then they will be left alone. While this may be true it's not right.