Pineland Commission approves pipeline
- Thread starter 46er
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There are thousands, if not millions of miles of natural gas pipelines running throughout the country and many, many neighborhoods. Are you suggesting they all be dug up and removed because they may leak? These arguments are getting ridiculous as it not about the pines but one thing only, as defined in one of the articles.
There's a big difference between the gas line running under your street and what they're proposing to run to the BL England plant.
And yes, actually we should look to replace aging infrastructure. Or do we just all sit back and do nothing while natural gas leaks into the air around us? How about all of the fire hydrants in Newark that don't work because of 100+ year old leaking water pipes. Should we do nothing about that, too?
MY problem with the pipeline to the BL England plant is this:
1. That plant is not necessary for the grid in New Jersey. It doesn't produce that much power.
2. The pipeline goes against Pinelands Commission regulations. Infrastructure such as pipelines CAN go through the Pinelands if it serves communities there. The BL England plant does not serve any Pinelands communities.
3. Governor Christie stacked the Pinelands Commission to get the approval for the pipeline. South Jersey Gas has a lot of ties back to Christie's croneys.
I've noticed that it's generally the more politically conservative people who support the pipeline. What I don't understand is that (from my experience) conservatives are all about the rule of law. (Fighting for the 2nd amendment, fighting Obamacare, etc.) But why aren't people up in arms about #3 here? Why is it alright for this guy to circumvent laws and regulations in such a way that will have a HUGE impact on an area of the state that is so important to people here? (I mean, why are you on this website if you don't care about the pines?)
This is not meant to be a liberal vs. conservative thing, but more of a "ok we have a system of laws here, and we have someone to did an end run around the commission to get this pipeline approved." Let's focus on that for a minute. How is that alright?
Look, I believe that we shouldn't be as reliant on fossil fuels as we are, and I do appreciate that there are alternatives out there, however the alternate technology that we have today isn't enough to get us off fossil fuels. Someday soon, maybe. And I'd much rather have the stupid BL England plant burning natural gas than coal. But you know what, run the pipeline around the Pines to get it to the plant. Why should Pinelands communities have to suffer because it's inconvenient for SJ Gas to find an alternate route?
Now, let's talk about the Southern Reliability Link. I'm less opposed to that since the commission isn't involved. Am I happy that they're going to be cutting a ROW through the relatively untouched woods through Ft. Dix? No. But let's examine one of the reasons why they want to build this thing:
https://www.njng.com/about/southern-reliability-link/
There's the house I was renting in Toms River on the day after Hurricane Sandy. I had four feet of water inside.
I borrowed a pair of chest waders and walked the half mile from higher ground to my house and went inside. Wanna know what still worked? The natural gas and the water. (And friends who didn't have water inside their house and a generator also found that their FiOS still worked as well.)
When the waters finally receded utility workers went around to every house and shut off the gas supply and other utilities for safety reasons and spray painted the houses to show they had been cut off:
G for gas, E for electric, S for sewer.
So tell me, do we really need another gas pipeline when what we had worked just fine?
I'm confused here… on the previous page, @Jason Bladzinski criticized @46er for his support of the SRL and you liked his post:
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/pineland-commission-approves-pipeline.10921/#post-136432
But now you're saying the Pinelands Commission isn't involved? So how are they circumventing the Commission's authority if they aren't involved?
I didn't actually read the article that dogg linked to.They do absolutely some of the gas mains that do leak have been in the ground since the the 1940s. but are being replaced with the more modern pipes as we speak to fix the water and gas main infrastructure in nj by the companys that provide the service
Probably; I doubt there is anyone on this web site that has the knowledge to accurately answer that question, but consider a couple of possibilities. Sandy was just a tropical storm when it hit, what if it had been something in the Cat 2+ range, which is when infrastructure really begins to be affected. Oyster Creek goes off line in 3 years; how will that loss be satisfied? There is talk of adding a natural gas generating facility on that property. Maybe the gas line is needed for that, maybe not. The only fact regarding the SRL that matters as a Pines issue is the Pinelands Commission approved it. From what I have read, there was nothing illegal done in doing that. Some political maneuvering, but that's just the way it goes, regardless of whom does it. There will always be those unhappy with things; that's how non-profits make a lot of tax free $$$.
And for the record, I am independent. Could never understand how some folks throw all their support behind one ideology.
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I believe that the reason there was no power after Sandy was because all the power lines were down not because the power company lacked resources to produce power. There may be pipelines already running through the Pines but these were pre-Pinelands Commission. There is a reason that they aren't allowed in the CMP. I was told it was because there was a plan to run oil pipelines from docking stations in the Ocean through the Pinelands to the refineries on the Delaware River.
"Superstorm Sandy was the most devastating storm to ever hit our state. The damage to New Jersey’s shore communities, especially in Monmouth and Ocean counties, was unlike anything experienced in our history. If the lessons from Superstorm Sandy have taught us anything, it is the critical need for system reliability and resiliency."
Nothing bothers me more than when I read or hear CRAP like this. Sandy taught us NOTHING that a five year old kid playing at the beach didn't already know.
Nothing bothers me more than when I read or hear CRAP like this. Sandy taught us NOTHING that a five year old kid playing at the beach didn't already know.
The most devastating problem with utilities because of Sandy were the Verizon copper POTS lines that ran out to Mantoloking that they are still trying their hardest not to replace.
If anyone was interested in attending a meeting. It will be an evening meeting this month, this Thursday at 6:00. http://www.nj.gov/pinelands/home/meetings/documents/2agenda 5-12-16.pdf
7. General Public Comment (to ensure adequate time for all members of the public to comment, we
will respectfully limit comments to three (3) minutes. Questions raised during this period may not
be responded to at this time but where feasible, will be followed up by the Commission and its
staff.)
Must be nice.......
They totally bypassed the actual commission for this last vote. I believe that it was Nancy Wittenburg (a Christie lackey) who made it so that the last proposal wouldnt even go through the commission. They cheated, this pipeline was voted down twice. Usually that means if they want to make another proposal, they would have to offer a different route. They didnt. The exact same plan that was knocked down twice circumvented the law and the commission by removing them from the decision.I'm confused here… on the previous page, @Jason Bladzinski criticized @46er for his support of the SRL and you liked his post:
https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/pineland-commission-approves-pipeline.10921/#post-136432
But now you're saying the Pinelands Commission isn't involved? So how are they circumventing the Commission's authority if they aren't involved?
Big guns step up against pipeline. Governors file amicus brief:
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...in-pinelands-pipeline-suit-on-the-green-side/
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...in-pinelands-pipeline-suit-on-the-green-side/
Got a PPA bulletin this evening that the Appellate Division of the NJ Supreme Court ruled that the Pinelands Commission did not follow their own rules. The Court set aside the PC decision favoring the pipeline and returned the matter to the PC. The Court did not rule on the substance, only the violation of procedure. It also slapped the PC's wrist in the process. Wish it had penalized Christie in some way for "managing" the PC's membership to do his bidding.
I can't get this Z@!&^^XX computer program to copy the full bulletin and print it here - please look to the PPA for your copy. SORRY.
Ten Minutes Later
My ever-loving Ro came to my frustrated help and provided the following link;
<http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_ab3f2a3b-55e3-52a8-ae7b-317540e28046.html>
johnny b
I can't get this Z@!&^^XX computer program to copy the full bulletin and print it here - please look to the PPA for your copy. SORRY.
Ten Minutes Later
My ever-loving Ro came to my frustrated help and provided the following link;
<http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_ab3f2a3b-55e3-52a8-ae7b-317540e28046.html>
johnny b
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Big victory for the protestors of the Dakota Access pipeline. Congrats to all who finally reached President Obama to deny the permit to drill. Had he not acted, no doubt President Elect Trump wouldn't give a shit about the situation. Hopefully they stop the pipeline there, and we stop the pipeline here.