The public pressure has just begun.
Political pressure will follow
Things will soon get interesting
There are at least two large state organizations that are aware of this and want it to stop, and have many members who will write to the Gov.
Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road
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The public pressure has just begun.
Political pressure will follow
Things will soon get interesting
There are at least two large state organizations that are aware of this and want it to stop, and have many members who will write to the Gov.
Good. Now whats being written? Are people requesting more law enforcement? Are people requesting for vehicle access in Wharton to eliminated? Are people requesting for 1/4 mile to be shut down? Depending which I may even jump on the bandwagon.
Hello All,
I was keeping quiet on this subject for a while, but am going to put in my 02. This is my opinion and only that if anyone cares. I, like Dave consider myself a neutral party on this subject. Do I condone what is going on at 1/4 and other places, NO, do I do my best to prevent it, YES. Do I condone the bashing of everyone out there who drives a 4x4, hell no, however, a few bad apples spoil the barrel. I do drive in the pines almost every weekend, but I do my best not to damage anything and leave it the way I find it. I, like most on this site enjoy going out and taking in the scenery, etc. Going out with the intent to destroy is on some folks agendas and is wrong. Now that I mentioned the word, "agenda" lets look at that. Our friend, pineslover, has come to us recently and has been posting like mad on this subject, a truly passionate pines supporter in some opinions. In my opinion, Mr. Lover is in a political position or longs to be and needs a certain feather in his cap to further himself. I have seen his type before. He will tell you what he loves and supports for his own personal gain. The part that scares me the most that few commented on is when it was suggested that the Jeep Jamboree permit be revoked. While they may have no regard for what we are trying to accomplish, if we make it easy for state government to revoke this permit, what one will be next? Beach Buggy permits, which I have, fishing or hunting licenses? The Curly Fern Enduro? or maybe, just maybe all vehicular access to Wharton and Byrne and all other areas like ours. We need to be careful here in the way we approach govornment or we may be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Lover and his agenda, apologies if I am and also if you are a Ms. Lover! This is and always will be a super sensitive issue when it comes to conservation and recreation. I just hope everyone takes each person they meet in the pines at face value and doesn't lump them all together. The guy that drives the huge 4x4 may just be the guy that helps your wife or daughter change a flat in the pouring rain, or the guy wanting to stop the madness and damage may be him as well. My .02 let the flaming begin.
I was keeping quiet on this subject for a while, but am going to put in my 02. This is my opinion and only that if anyone cares. I, like Dave consider myself a neutral party on this subject. Do I condone what is going on at 1/4 and other places, NO, do I do my best to prevent it, YES. Do I condone the bashing of everyone out there who drives a 4x4, hell no, however, a few bad apples spoil the barrel. I do drive in the pines almost every weekend, but I do my best not to damage anything and leave it the way I find it. I, like most on this site enjoy going out and taking in the scenery, etc. Going out with the intent to destroy is on some folks agendas and is wrong. Now that I mentioned the word, "agenda" lets look at that. Our friend, pineslover, has come to us recently and has been posting like mad on this subject, a truly passionate pines supporter in some opinions. In my opinion, Mr. Lover is in a political position or longs to be and needs a certain feather in his cap to further himself. I have seen his type before. He will tell you what he loves and supports for his own personal gain. The part that scares me the most that few commented on is when it was suggested that the Jeep Jamboree permit be revoked. While they may have no regard for what we are trying to accomplish, if we make it easy for state government to revoke this permit, what one will be next? Beach Buggy permits, which I have, fishing or hunting licenses? The Curly Fern Enduro? or maybe, just maybe all vehicular access to Wharton and Byrne and all other areas like ours. We need to be careful here in the way we approach govornment or we may be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Lover and his agenda, apologies if I am and also if you are a Ms. Lover! This is and always will be a super sensitive issue when it comes to conservation and recreation. I just hope everyone takes each person they meet in the pines at face value and doesn't lump them all together. The guy that drives the huge 4x4 may just be the guy that helps your wife or daughter change a flat in the pouring rain, or the guy wanting to stop the madness and damage may be him as well. My .02 let the flaming begin.
If the Jeep Jamboree folks followed their permit and stuck to authorized trails/roads no one would have a problem with them.
The many You Tube videos of past Jamborees in the Pinelands, of them driving in the wetlands at the scar shows otherwise.
If anyone with a beach buggy permit broke the driving regs, they would have their permit revoked and be fined.
My political position is for the plants and frogs and the ecology of the Pine Barrens and not to have 4 wheeling banned in the pines because of more than a few bad apples, I've done it for 30+years.
I guess you do not hunt, what do you think the NJ State Fed of Sportsmen that hunt Wharton and the Pines think of this? When they cannot get to their sites because idiots made the once passable puddles impassible mud holes.
I'm just upset that almost every week this year, since June, that I have been back there, a few bad apples have done more and more damage.
I also see on the 4 wheeling blogs how this places is promoted and the many of 4 wheelers that meet at Atsion on the weekend before going back there.
We ran into one last week, he mentioned that we should go back there on weekends because its CRAZY.
What will happen when one of their unattended bonfires, left during a fire ban, causes a major fire in this highly fire prone area, during these extremely dry conditions. More or less access to the Pines? I reported the fires to Cindy at Atsion numerous times and have also put them out.
I also spoke with the area fire warden who won't send his men back their at night because of safety issues.
We all need to work together to resolve this problem, educate 4 wheelers where to safely drive and report illegal activities before the state does something heavy handed and wrecks it for us all.
Joe,
If you don't mind, please PM me your phone mumber so I can give ya a call. Too much to type.
If you don't mind, please PM me your phone mumber so I can give ya a call. Too much to type.
i cannot speak specifically for the Jeep Jamboree guys for the fact that I refuse to take place in them esp in an area that I already know. But the reason I'm singling out this part of your post is, "authorized trails/roads". As of now the roads that are "Authorized" are strictly based out of the opinion of the law enforcement. To this day there is not a map that can be reviewed by people new to the Pines informing them where they can and cannot go. I understand some areas are blatently obvious, but to a newcomer, if you back to 1/4 mile without knowing what it looked like in the 30s, you could easily think that it looks like a heavily traveled road with some water holes. To an untrained mind If a person is staying out of the grass, they are staying on the main trail and not causing any harm. they don't have the picture in their head of what it used to be. They don't have a map to tell themselves where to go. This is once again why I believe in a marked trail system. one of the clubs I'm with is more than willing to help with that. We have the software, knowledge and funds.
Good point Dave, the "RULES" are much too abiguous and open to interpretation.
Another point I would like to emphasize is that just staying on "authorized trails/roads" is not enough. I've seen them ripped up by people playing on them. They see a big puddle in a road or a hill and they drive them hard over and over again. They make it difficult to impossible for those like us who are just out enjoying a ride or trying to get somewhere, this includes the FF service.
Rob is working on a map.
If you look on the 1977 USGS quad there was never a road there. There were intermittent streams that have been turned into roads.
Photos from NJDEP IMap
1930 Aerial, notice all the vernal pools, round dark spots, that are now gone, the stream are in blue
The 1997 shows some disturbance.
Forested wetlands threatened and endangered species map
Wetlands map
Attachments
look at the 1930 areial, about 75-100 feet off of the railroad tracks there is a trail which is the main drag through there today.
Yes I know Rob is working on a map, but doesn't Howard Boyd already have one that could be used with some finnesse? How long do you want it to take?
I agree this could happen. Road conditions are important however I have been steadily traveling the trails with a 2001 dodge caravan and have not had any problems. No matter what theres still gonna be irresponsible people. I think the main goal here should be minimizing the damage going on. I do not know an answer to 100% eliminate every problem.
Pines Lover, the new road was made by the FF Service to contain a very hot fire in 1999, I mean the road encircling the area, not the ones crossing the wet land. There was no remediation and the vehicles moved in and we have this now. I remember riding my horse along the RR tracks in 1979 and watching the 4 wheelers play in the very bad road there along the tracks, and I think it is a legitimate road, but as I said in my previous post they were deliberately making a mess of it. Back then you would occasionally see tracks into the wetlands and an occasional stuck truck.
I'm guessing you are talking about Campbells 2002 regs? for the most part at least?
Were you traveling between High Crossing and Hampton Furnace in your Caravan this March?
Did you climb the rutted clay hill on Tuckerton Road just north of High Crossing?
That was the access/maintenance road for the RR tracks.
The rest were created from dry/intermittent streams.
There are tons of area GIS maps but no one has produced a shape layer of 4 wheel road and non 4 wheel roads
I did not climb tuckerton road with it but I did descend the hill. careful straddling is what it took. Tires broke loose for about maybe 2 feet climbing back out of the hole. Between High Crossing and hampton Furnace I did not not do during March. I know better than to go out there in the wet season without 4 wheel drive. Alot of the damage is done by small stock vehciles going into puddles in 2 wheel drive getting stuck and then engaging 4 wheel drive and burying the ffront down. then the nbext guy comes and gets stuck. then the guy wityh big tires comes and makes it threw not really making it any deeper. The oher one that gets the roads torn up is when there is Ice over the water holes that breaks and the vehicles get stuck and try to get themselves out. Anotherone is consistancy, the more people you have travel through a puddle the more dirt gets pushed to the sides forming ruts. i'm not trying to say that some road damge is intentional but the ruts form there alot different ways.
Why Not I've been willing to help. Do the higher ups not see it as an important task.
which is what I was referring to as a mapped trail that someone could easily mistake for being legal wheeling zone.
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