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- Thread starter Boyd
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It does seem plausible. But it's not quite that simple, because the USGS topo does show a small hill very close to Guy's Hayland Hill location. This feature is not on any of the other historical topo maps, and it isn't on LIDAR imagery.
But this raises another issue, which is an inherent limitation of topo maps. Is that feature actually a hill? It could also be pit that's lower than the surrounding terrain, and it would look exactly the same on a topo. The countour lines would need to have elevation numbers to know exactly what this represents. I'm still assuming that it's a hill though, and I still wonder what happened to it!
But this raises another issue, which is an inherent limitation of topo maps. Is that feature actually a hill? It could also be pit that's lower than the surrounding terrain, and it would look exactly the same on a topo. The countour lines would need to have elevation numbers to know exactly what this represents. I'm still assuming that it's a hill though, and I still wonder what happened to it!
A depression should have hash marks on the contour lines
Ha! Right you are Al. And now that you mention it, I have seen that used, although not sure if it is done consistently. A good reminder that there's always something to learn.
Never knew there was such a thing as an "indefinite contour" either!
Never knew there was such a thing as an "indefinite contour" either!
I learned of Hayland Hill on the Wharton survey. There is an old Medford/Shamong township stone on it and 25 feet away there is a Medford/Shamong monument placed there by the Wharton survey team. Both are located on the downward slope of the hill and not on the top.
The Medford/Shamong stone. it is really large but mostly underground.
The monument 25 feet away.
The township stone shown above is called on old maps "Hay Landing" This would be where boats would dock to travel down the Mullica. There is a nice little area there that I found where most likely Hay Landing was. I know I am correct because I found the stones on this map below. This "Commissioners" map is signed by three of the Commissioners. Israel Garwood, J. Franklin Peacock and James Lippincott.
The map says:
"Map of lands near Sharps stone Mount and the Atsion meadows. The parts tinged with paint represent lands belonging to Job Braddock, Maurice Raleigh, William R. Lippincott and Catharine? R. Brown as lotted? for sale on February 24th 1879"
Boyd, this map may show the hill in the correct location but the stone and monument are on the line I have marked. The survey team called it Hayland Hill even though it was not exactly on the hill. It would be like putting a stone at the bottom of Apple Pie Hill but marking on the map that is was at Apple Pie. Close enough I guess. The circle is about where it is on the line.
And here is the John Polhemus stone show on the Commissioners map above.
And the small stone in a swamp at the bottom of Commissioners map above.
The Medford/Shamong stone. it is really large but mostly underground.
The monument 25 feet away.
The township stone shown above is called on old maps "Hay Landing" This would be where boats would dock to travel down the Mullica. There is a nice little area there that I found where most likely Hay Landing was. I know I am correct because I found the stones on this map below. This "Commissioners" map is signed by three of the Commissioners. Israel Garwood, J. Franklin Peacock and James Lippincott.
The map says:
"Map of lands near Sharps stone Mount and the Atsion meadows. The parts tinged with paint represent lands belonging to Job Braddock, Maurice Raleigh, William R. Lippincott and Catharine? R. Brown as lotted? for sale on February 24th 1879"
Boyd, this map may show the hill in the correct location but the stone and monument are on the line I have marked. The survey team called it Hayland Hill even though it was not exactly on the hill. It would be like putting a stone at the bottom of Apple Pie Hill but marking on the map that is was at Apple Pie. Close enough I guess. The circle is about where it is on the line.
And here is the John Polhemus stone show on the Commissioners map above.
And the small stone in a swamp at the bottom of Commissioners map above.
Wow, thanks! That is very cool Guy! 
The location on my map comes from a GPX file that you gave me back in 2008. Perhaps that was before you actually visited those stones? It looks like the location was chosen based on the little hill on the USGS topo. Here it is on my map and the USGS 24k topo (the red X is at the same coordinates on both maps). The contours on my map were created from LIDAR data and as you can see, they are completely different from what the USGS shows.
I'm working on a new map right now... so where would you put Hayland Hill? At the spot you circled on the property line? And what are your thoughts on the little hill on the USGS topo (marked with the red X)? Do you think that is just an error on the map, or was a little hill there at one time that is now gone? I'm starting to think that it's just a map error...
The location on my map comes from a GPX file that you gave me back in 2008. Perhaps that was before you actually visited those stones? It looks like the location was chosen based on the little hill on the USGS topo. Here it is on my map and the USGS 24k topo (the red X is at the same coordinates on both maps). The contours on my map were created from LIDAR data and as you can see, they are completely different from what the USGS shows.
I'm working on a new map right now... so where would you put Hayland Hill? At the spot you circled on the property line? And what are your thoughts on the little hill on the USGS topo (marked with the red X)? Do you think that is just an error on the map, or was a little hill there at one time that is now gone? I'm starting to think that it's just a map error...
Ha! Right you are Al. And now that you mention it, I have seen that used, although not sure if it is done consistently. A good reminder that there's always something to learn.
Never knew there was such a thing as an "indefinite contour" either!
View attachment 13509
Would all you guys please stop posting usefull information about stuff I didn't realize I needed to know? I'm using up my bookmarks.
Thanks!
All,
We revisited the Hayland Hill area today and stopped by a few of the stones, and I tried to take a photo across the Mullica at hay landing but it is just too overgrown. However, I did get a photo taken near the old Shamong/Medford stone looking up the rise of Hayland Hill.
The rise of Hayland Hill
This area is not well known at all and is mostly frequented by motorcycles where they can ride without any interference by anyone. When Jessica and I was there years ago we were walking the trail and could hear them coming towards us. I stepped into the woods fairly far but Jessica just stepped off the trail. The first two riders sailed right on by without seeing her but the third one turned his head like an owl trying to figure out what she was doing out there. I can imagine what he told the other two when they stopped for a break. We still laugh about that one.
Anyway, we saw both gloves in two different places pointing the direction or maybe telling us off. Don't really know Notice it is nailed.
This is the Job Braddock stone that we revisited today. Job acquired the property on March 11, 1854.
This survey is from 1878 showing a "Stone on a coal pit bottom."
And here is that stone. It made it through the heat of a coal pit and is still around 155 years later.
And the Shampng/Medford Township stone again. I believe that is a separate stone in the front but can't really tell. The stone is a foot thick.
And we again looked for this stone and could not find it. The area is fairly clear so it is either gone or underground. It is right at Hay Landing.
And each time we go it is always nice to visit here.
We revisited the Hayland Hill area today and stopped by a few of the stones, and I tried to take a photo across the Mullica at hay landing but it is just too overgrown. However, I did get a photo taken near the old Shamong/Medford stone looking up the rise of Hayland Hill.
The rise of Hayland Hill
This area is not well known at all and is mostly frequented by motorcycles where they can ride without any interference by anyone. When Jessica and I was there years ago we were walking the trail and could hear them coming towards us. I stepped into the woods fairly far but Jessica just stepped off the trail. The first two riders sailed right on by without seeing her but the third one turned his head like an owl trying to figure out what she was doing out there. I can imagine what he told the other two when they stopped for a break. We still laugh about that one.
Anyway, we saw both gloves in two different places pointing the direction or maybe telling us off. Don't really know
Notice it is nailed.This is the Job Braddock stone that we revisited today. Job acquired the property on March 11, 1854.
This survey is from 1878 showing a "Stone on a coal pit bottom."
And here is that stone. It made it through the heat of a coal pit and is still around 155 years later.
And the Shampng/Medford Township stone again. I believe that is a separate stone in the front but can't really tell. The stone is a foot thick.
And we again looked for this stone and could not find it. The area is fairly clear so it is either gone or underground. It is right at Hay Landing.
And each time we go it is always nice to visit here.
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Didn't we go very near that hill(ish) on our Alquatka Trip? (edit: no, after looking closer, we did not get down that far.)
forums.njpinebarrens.com
Alquatka Branch, a PBX Hike
All, On 3/1/08 this edited announcement arrived in the inbox of all members of PBX. Get your swamp-stomping shoes on. We’re taking in the scenic sites of the West Jersey Pine Barrens. The title of our next trip is “Alquakta Branch” We’ll meet at 8:45 AM on Saturday, March 29. The...
forums.njpinebarrens.com
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Didn't we go very near that hill(ish) on our Alquatka Trip? (edit: no, after looking closer, we did not get down that far.)
Alquatka Branch, a PBX Hike
All, On 3/1/08 this edited announcement arrived in the inbox of all members of PBX. Get your swamp-stomping shoes on. We’re taking in the scenic sites of the West Jersey Pine Barrens. The title of our next trip is “Alquakta Branch” We’ll meet at 8:45 AM on Saturday, March 29. The...
Yes we did not get there. BTW, I was looking over the photos and tracks for that day and that was a really good hike.
Well it looks like we finally have 1-meter LIDAR for the south. Too bad that I'm immersed in the mobile site right now, this will have to wait. But I will circle back around eventually. Will probably completely re-write the LIDAR site to be integrated with the other desktop maps. It should be possible for the LIDAR elevation models to just be a layer in maptalks, the API that I'm using for the mobile site.
are any of these stones the one we have looked for several times one time of which i caught a black rat snake near where the stone should have been?I t was very bad briars along the edge of the meadow.All,
We revisited the Hayland Hill area today and stopped by a few of the stones, and I tried to take a photo across the Mullica at hay landing but it is just too overgrown. However, I did get a photo taken near the old Shamong/Medford stone looking up the rise of Hayland Hill.
The rise of Hayland Hill
View attachment 13527
This area is not well known at all and is mostly frequented by motorcycles where they can ride without any interference by anyone. When Jessica and I was there years ago we were walking the trail and could hear them coming towards us. I stepped into the woods fairly far but Jessica just stepped off the trail. The first two riders sailed right on by without seeing her but the third one turned his head like an owl trying to figure out what she was doing out there. I can imagine what he told the other two when they stopped for a break. We still laugh about that one.
Anyway, we saw both gloves in two different places pointing the direction or maybe telling us off. Don't really know
View attachment 13528
This is the Job Braddock stone that we revisited today. Job acquired the property on March 11, 1854.
View attachment 13529
This survey is from 1878 showing a "Stone on a coal pit bottom."
View attachment 13531
And here is that stone. It made it through the heat of a coal pit and is still around 155 years later.
View attachment 13532
And the Shampng/Medford Township stone again. I believe that is a separate stone in the front but can't really tell. The stone is a foot thick.
View attachment 13533
And we again looked for this stone and could not find it. The area is fairly clear so it is either gone or underground. It is right at Hay Landing.
View attachment 13536
And each time we go it is always nice to visit here.
View attachment 13535
The stone I
"m speaking of was supposed to be roughly here https://online.boydsmaps.com/#18/39.79472/-74.82196/njgin2007i we tried several times and never found it.
That was the stone on the J. Roger Brick property. I was there at least 5 other times and even cut much of the briers away and never found it.
Just a heads-up, I have decided to shut down lidar.boydsmaps.com. It's been a fun experiment, but there simply isn't any interest - there have been no visitors at all for the past 10 days and it has barely even averaged one user per day during 2021. This just isn't a good use of my server resources. In the future, I will investigate the possibility of adding a similar capability to the boydsmaps app.
My map sites are about to make a transition, there are just too many.... boydsmaps.com, lidar.boydsmaps.com, online.boydsmaps.com, mobile.boydsmaps.com. It's confusing, inefficient and difficult to manage. When the transition is complete there will just be one site for computers and phones: boydsmaps.com. Have been sidetracked with summer fun recently, but hopefully this transition will take place by the end of September.
Have not decided when to "pull the plug" on lidar.boydsmaps.com, but it will be pretty soon. So this is your last chance to check it out.
My map sites are about to make a transition, there are just too many.... boydsmaps.com, lidar.boydsmaps.com, online.boydsmaps.com, mobile.boydsmaps.com. It's confusing, inefficient and difficult to manage. When the transition is complete there will just be one site for computers and phones: boydsmaps.com. Have been sidetracked with summer fun recently, but hopefully this transition will take place by the end of September.
Have not decided when to "pull the plug" on lidar.boydsmaps.com, but it will be pretty soon. So this is your last chance to check it out.
Sorry to say, but the time to say farewell to lidar.boydsmaps.com has come. The site will shut down permanently this Thursday. But I will investigate adding some similar capabilities to the boydsmaps app in the next few months. Could be awhile before anything like this is implemented however.
After the shutdown, any old links will just take you to boydsmaps.com. The system of coordinates I created is just too complex to make translation practical, but links to topo, shaded and solid maps will open a similar type of map, centered on Apple Pie Hill.
After the shutdown, any old links will just take you to boydsmaps.com. The system of coordinates I created is just too complex to make translation practical, but links to topo, shaded and solid maps will open a similar type of map, centered on Apple Pie Hill.