Isolation 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,403
1,259
1,093
42
Eatontown, NJ
www.benruset.com
Ever since 2016 there's been a big push to discount science and the work of experts, especially when they disagree with what the president and the right wing media says.

Dr. Fauci is urging caution, and the president is on record with not agreeing with what he has to say. People are now sending Fauci death threats and he has to have 24x7 security. He's an expert in infectious diseases and has served multiple administrations, both Democratic and Republican.

Let's just say that during a pandemic, I'm going to trust the recommendations of a doctor over those of a real estate developer. And it boggles my mind that other people see it differently.

If going out to the park meant that people were only putting themselves at risk, that's one thing. I'm all for people and their personal responsibility. But when you risk others? When do your rights begin to trump (no pun) others? You can be totally asymptomatic and still carry the disease. Tests are not reliable.

The fact that people want to say this is "just the flu" is beyond belief. If this was "just like the seasonal flu" then why don't hospitals run out of PPE every year? Why don't we face a shortage of ventilators every year? Why don't we have healthcare workers begging and pleading for support every flu season?

Staying at home and isolating as much as possible is the responsible thing to do. The only way that we, as a species, survived our early days was to gather in groups for mutual protection. History has shown us that humankind works best in groups, pooling resources, sharing knowledge, and protecting one another from harm. Everyone bears the cost of living in a society, these days mostly in the form of taxes. But if there are things that need to be done for the greater good like accepting a few weeks of inconvenience and isolation to slow the spread of the disease, it's just something that has to happen.

But now we have so many armchair experts who think they know better than people who have actually studied virology their entire life. They hear a sound bite on some TV show, regurgitate that into a somewhat plausible sounding narrative, and it's off to the races. Al (sorry for making you the example here) brought up the Spanish Flu several times to argue about how this is more about governmental overreach than good public health policy, yet he didn't even know the basics of the Spanish Flu. But somehow he's an expert and can say that there are no risks with his clandestine trips into the woods?

There are a lot of things that I don't know. And I trust that the experts whose job it is to know actually do, or have the breadth of knowledge to be able to extrapolate possible outcomes from situations. I understand in vague terms how a rocket pushed an Apollo capsule into orbit, but I wouldn't ever say that I could build one or know more about rocketry than the people that do.

As far as the economy goes, yes. The situation is dire. But humans lived, quite successfully, in pre American economic conditions. There are so many people who have a vested interest in restarting the economy that it will almost certainly recover and likely come back better than it was before. I hope that when it does it's a little more fairer for all, re: corporate taxes vs personal taxes.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,403
1,259
1,093
42
Eatontown, NJ
www.benruset.com
And I apologize for bringing politics into this, especially since the standing rule here is no political discussion and it's kept this site from becoming a toxic shithole like so many other discussion forums. But I don't think that there's a way of discussing this without bringing politics into it, especially since the divide really follows political ideological lines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rc911
T

Toothy Critter

Guest
Before we canonize Dr. Fauci lets remember that early on, he even minimalized this outbreak and told us that it would not be as severe as it is, and the fact that he and others downplayed the wearing of masks. It should be evident that NO ONE was prepared for this. Including our own selves. But that aside, don't think that finding a remedy to this particular strain is the end of it. The world has changed. It has "shrunk:. New York is the epicenter because it is in fact the epicenter of the world. Years ago people did not openly travel as they do now, so outbreaks were confined, which is what in fact "social distancing" is designed to do. Also, we all heard of the supposed cautions against too much use of antibacterial cleaners, that we are not allowing our own immune systems to fight these viruses. We may kill this one, true, but it will morph and come back. So lets all just shut the f**k up and stop pointing fingers at scientists, politicians, or whoever, and look at ourselves. Lets just get through this, but LEARN from it and PREPARE for the next one. This is a wakeup call. This is the new world, where an infected person can hop on a plane and spread a virus to the other side of the world in a matter of hours. Enough crap to fight about, now we gotta fight about this shit!!!!????? Stay safe, keep the well being of yourself, your loved ones, AND everyone else, in mind. Just like we learned to prepare for another 911, we will learn to prepare for the next pandemic. I'm done Oh, and Happy Easter
 
Last edited by a moderator:

imkms

Explorer
Feb 18, 2008
482
106
43
SJ and SW FL
Before we canonize Dr. Fauci lets remember that early on, he even minimalized this outbreak and told us that it would not be as severe as it is, and the fact that he and others downplayed the wearing of masks. It should be evident that NO ONE was prepared for this. Including our own selves. But that aside, don't think that finding a remedy to this particular strain is the end of it. The world has changed. It has "shrunk:. New York is the epicenter because it is in fact the epicenter of the world. Years ago people did not openly travel as they do now, so outbreaks were confined, which is what in fact "social distancing" is designed to do. Also, we all heard of the supposed cautions against too much use of antibacterial cleaners, that we are not allowing our own immune systems to fight these viruses. We may kill this one, true, but it will morph and come back. So lets all just shut the f**k up and stop pointing fingers at scientists, politicians, or whoever, and look at ourselves. Lets just get through this, but LEARN from it and PREPARE for the next one. This is a wakeup call. This is the new world, where an infected person can hop on a plane and spread a virus to the other side of the world in a matter of hours. Enough crap to fight about, now we gotta fight about this shit!!!!????? Stay safe, keep the well being of yourself, your loved ones, AND everyone else, in mind. Just like we learned to prepare for another 911, we will learn to prepare for the next pandemic. I'm done
Yes, Dr. Fauci did minimize the expected outcome of this virus, as did the WHO, and the CDC. The President and many politicians on both sides of the aisle, after being briefed of these opinions, then adopted that same position resulting in delayed actions here in America. The growing case numbers proved them wrong and then changes were made. The modeling of this virus has proven itself to be inaccurate so far and while modeling can be a useful tool we need to understand that at best it is an educated guess with plenty of room for error.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,916
2,295
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Before we canonize Dr. Fauci lets remember that early on, he even minimalized this outbreak and told us that it would not be as severe as it is, and the fact that he and others downplayed the wearing of masks.
You were probably looking at his January press appearances, before a death in the United States. I'm sure he was going on the supposition that it could be contained if it came to this country, as with H1N1, SARS, and Ebola. But if you look at the scientific analysis of the first case in the United States on January 20, you'll see how new and complicated this virus turned out to be even to scientists. This guy lived. I'm grateful we have scientists of this caliber looking at this disease.

 
  • Like
Reactions: glowordz

Sue Gremlin

Piney
Sep 13, 2005
1,210
151
1,043
57
Vicksburg, Michigan
Someone wants us to fear and why and why now? I think I know.
I don't want to know why you think it is, but I will say this: My friend died of COVID-19. He was here, and now he's gone. His name was George Ross, he was a brilliant photographer and artist. https://www.georgerossphotographs.com/

My nephew is an ER physician at Yale New Haven Hospital. Every day he risks his health to help others (without adequate PPE) and every day he watches countless people die alone. This is not some sort of conspiracy, it's reality.

No, I'm not interested in your theories as to why we are shut down. I am only interested in the facts, and wanted to share just a few of my own facts. No lies, no bias, just the truth that is right in front of me, that I see with my own two eyes.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
7,804
1,762
1,093
56
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Let the dogs out in the fenced in yard today and quickly noticed a neighborhood escapee nosing my dogs through the fence. We could not have that,too much grouping up and since the other dog didn't know me he would not get away when I told him to go home.I thought in order to social distance the dogs I"d take them away from all other dogs so we went swimming.

 

old jersey girl

Explorer
Jul 26, 2017
434
191
43
south nj near Delaware bayshore
I think it's important to check and see if someone claiming to be an authority has a pollitical agenda. Since true objectivity is not a realistic ideal for most of us, I like to get my news from a variety of sources.
I read the New York Times for detailed, through reporting with an east coast liberal bent, and the Wall Street Journal for financial and technical coverage with a conservative bias somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan. I watch network news, CNN and FOX to get different viewpoints.

I do not get news from social media, since news feeds are tailored to a recipient's perceived bias.
I do not like labels. Years ago one of the cops I worked with asked me if I was "one of those liberals".
I said, "I.'m a facist liberal on Tuesday and Thursday, a liberal facist Monday, Wednesday, and Friday."

Internet access allows me to read current medical and science research, primary sources instead of someone's opinion.

Dr. Annie Bukacek is a far right anti-abortion, anti-vaccination activist from a sparsely populated state where the covid-19 virus has barely penetrated. The youtube channel she is on is not news, it is promoting fear and the company's origin and funding are unclear.

Go online and see for yourself.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,916
2,295
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Thank you Jersey Girl. I like Al, I consider him a good friend, so I struggled on whether to say anything about that video. Perhaps one of the youtube commentators said it best:

"Okay lady, since you don't believe it's a problem, you should get your butt on a plane to NYC and volunteer to work without protective equipment. Until you do that, it's just noise out of your corn hole."
 

old jersey girl

Explorer
Jul 26, 2017
434
191
43
south nj near Delaware bayshore
Thank you Jersey Girl. I like Al, I consider him a good friend, so I struggled on whether to say anything about that video. Perhaps one of the youtube commentators said it best:

"Okay lady, since you don't believe it's a problem, you should get your butt on a plane to NYC and volunteer to work without protective equipment. Until you do that, it's just noise out of your corn hole."
I also like Al, look forward to meeting him at that party we WILL have when all this is over. I wanted to make the point about the need to check, verify sources..

Just sayin'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobpbx

HankG

BANNED
Dec 14, 2019
70
15
8
where i am
Because I’m talking about what we understand now. We understand, in fairly good terms,viruses and virology. However Covid 19 is new and not well understood. That’s why they call it “novel”.
Sure, but we understand viruses much, much better now than we did then..... Even though this is a novel virus, our scientific understanding of it is still much better than what it was of, say, the Spanish Flu just by virtue of the fact that our science and tech is light years beyond what is was a century ago.....
 

HankG

BANNED
Dec 14, 2019
70
15
8
where i am
Our president gets a lot of his direction from the Fox News opinion folks who are currently doing everything they can to undermine Dr Fauci. The president was initially reluctant to propose stay at home orders and has largely left it to the states, which is why places like Florida only recently implemented a lock down order.

I’d love to see credible proof that people are just calling any old death a Coronavirus death. Everything that I have heard is that they’re not including people who weren’t tested, or maybe showing symptoms - I don’t know - and that the actual death rate could be much higher.

We do have an idea of what it’s like to live through a depression. It sucks, unemployment is high, and it largely took a war to get us back in solid economic footing. I’m not sure if people were dying in the millions over it like they did during the last worldwide pandemic - Spanish Flu.

Also, it’s not just the American economy that’s going to feel the pinch. Coronavirus is in nearly every country now. Everyone will be hurting, not just us. The more Americans we can keep alive the easier it will be to recover.
I never suggested that doctors are calling any old death a coronavirus death.

This is straight from the CDC...

In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.”


No, I'm afraid we don't have much of an idea what it is like to go through a great depression. 2008 was nothing compared to what we're going to see. Unemployment is off the charts like nothing this country has ever seen.... and it is just beginning. But I'm completely in agreement about doing what we can to save lives. Isolating the most vulnerable can be done without destroying billions of livelihoods. If the world can learn from this and be prepared for the next pandemic, then hopefully not all is in vain...
 

HankG

BANNED
Dec 14, 2019
70
15
8
where i am
Ever since 2016 there's been a big push to discount science and the work of experts, especially when they disagree with what the president and the right wing media says.

Dr. Fauci is urging caution, and the president is on record with not agreeing with what he has to say. People are now sending Fauci death threats and he has to have 24x7 security. He's an expert in infectious diseases and has served multiple administrations, both Democratic and Republican.

Let's just say that during a pandemic, I'm going to trust the recommendations of a doctor over those of a real estate developer. And it boggles my mind that other people see it differently.

If going out to the park meant that people were only putting themselves at risk, that's one thing. I'm all for people and their personal responsibility. But when you risk others? When do your rights begin to trump (no pun) others? You can be totally asymptomatic and still carry the disease. Tests are not reliable.

The fact that people want to say this is "just the flu" is beyond belief. If this was "just like the seasonal flu" then why don't hospitals run out of PPE every year? Why don't we face a shortage of ventilators every year? Why don't we have healthcare workers begging and pleading for support every flu season?

Staying at home and isolating as much as possible is the responsible thing to do. The only way that we, as a species, survived our early days was to gather in groups for mutual protection. History has shown us that humankind works best in groups, pooling resources, sharing knowledge, and protecting one another from harm. Everyone bears the cost of living in a society, these days mostly in the form of taxes. But if there are things that need to be done for the greater good like accepting a few weeks of inconvenience and isolation to slow the spread of the disease, it's just something that has to happen.

But now we have so many armchair experts who think they know better than people who have actually studied virology their entire life. They hear a sound bite on some TV show, regurgitate that into a somewhat plausible sounding narrative, and it's off to the races. Al (sorry for making you the example here) brought up the Spanish Flu several times to argue about how this is more about governmental overreach than good public health policy, yet he didn't even know the basics of the Spanish Flu. But somehow he's an expert and can say that there are no risks with his clandestine trips into the woods?

There are a lot of things that I don't know. And I trust that the experts whose job it is to know actually do, or have the breadth of knowledge to be able to extrapolate possible outcomes from situations. I understand in vague terms how a rocket pushed an Apollo capsule into orbit, but I wouldn't ever say that I could build one or know more about rocketry than the people that do.

As far as the economy goes, yes. The situation is dire. But humans lived, quite successfully, in pre American economic conditions. There are so many people who have a vested interest in restarting the economy that it will almost certainly recover and likely come back better than it was before. I hope that when it does it's a little more fairer for all, re: corporate taxes vs personal taxes.
Science denialism was not born in 2016, and is certainly not exclusive to the right.....but I do agree that there is an unhealthy mount of ill-founded skepticism directed towards the scientific community....

And I would like to point out that there are many epidemiologists that do not share the views of Fauci and others...... Knut Wittkowski is one such scientist, and he is worth hearing out....



and I hope you're right about the economy bouncing back stronger than ever along with some needed changes in legislation.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
7,804
1,762
1,093
56
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Thank you Jersey Girl. I like Al, I consider him a good friend, so I struggled on whether to say anything about that video. Perhaps one of the youtube commentators said it best:

"Okay lady, since you don't believe it's a problem, you should get your butt on a plane to NYC and volunteer to work without protective equipment. Until you do that, it's just noise out of your corn hole."
I haven't heard the word "Corn Hole" since my Granny used to use it:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: noboat and bobpbx
Status
Not open for further replies.